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Refurbished FAP bug

Discussion in 'Developer's Corner' started by Angel O2 Mercer, Sep 20, 2020.

  1. Angel O2 Mercer
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    Hello,

    The Refurbished H.E.A.R.T. FAP (the one you get after doing a mission chain, material inputs and all that) is currently bugged, and it seems it has been bugged for a very long time.

    MA introduced a feature a while ago that compensated players for decay spent on mobs that are turreted, you got the decay back. But this does NOT happen exclusively with this cyrene FAP.

    This also puts into question the whole "decay is compensated in loot" when you heal yourself while hunting, which is even worse.

    I have been using this fap heavily for over 2 years as this is the only FAP I need and the only one I have.

    Are you aware of this? Do you plan yo fix it? what about compensation? (I know the last one is probably a decision only MA can make).

    Do you plan to change the next upgrade path so that we get rid of this bug? (removing the heal over time but keeping the high eco due to the 150% heals).

    Here is a link to the original thread on PCF, but I have tested it myself and the FAP is absolutely bugged.

    Any info would be very appreciated, thank you !!!
     
  2. bella
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    bella Active Member
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    I was the one asking avalon to record and test it , it all reported mindark is looking into that
     
  3. Kris | Cyrene
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    Kris | Cyrene Lo and Behold, the Fixer of Bugs Staff Member
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    Hey Angel O2 Mercer,

    Bella brought this to our attention some time ago, and we have reported the player findings directly to MindArk.

    This FAP wasn't/hasn't been changed on ourside since it's implementation, so we're already talking to MindArk about what is going on with it and how it address this issue.

    Currently we don't know what is causing the issue, but if it's the heal over time for example, we don't want to repeat the same issue for any future mission in the series.

    I'll make sure to include this for MindArk as well.

    ^ the TL;DR

    Cheers,
    Kris
     
  4. Angel O2 Mercer
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    Thank you very much bella and Kris :)
     
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  5. Kris | Cyrene
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    Kris | Cyrene Lo and Behold, the Fixer of Bugs Staff Member
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    Hey guys,

    So after some time, internal testing on both our and MA's parts, and trying several different solutions, we are unable to fix this item without making changes to it.

    We've discussed at length with MA already and we will be changing this item to have a greatly reduced or removed heal over time component to allow it to work properly.

    The change we finalize will be posted here and it will come with the next Planet Partner VU.

    Cheers,
    Kris
     
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  6. San
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    San Sandal San Tolk

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    It is extremely counterintuitive to accept that it can't be fixed when at the same time many other items exist with the very same features and no such problems. The only distinguishing factor (from this side of the fence) being its origin by a planet partner conjures up rather disturbing theories (esp. in context of and fuelled by other "events"). Without further evidence to dispel them there is a risk that some will stick.
     
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  7. Kris | Cyrene
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    Hey guys,

    So I wanted to elaborate more about the H.E.A.R.T. VI.

    I did try to push for opening the new missions and not make adjustments to the Rank VI, but for the time being it was decided that the best way is to reduce the Heal over Time component. I just got word today that it will be a reduction, not a removal, of the Heal over Time component until it works correctly.

    The way the change will work is that there will be an upfront heal, then a heal over time applied to the avatar. I’m not sure if there’s other healing tools like this in game but the FAP in the Hub works this way. No other changes will be applied, so no adjustments to the economy of the Rank VI, it should still be as efficient as it currently is.

    I’m going to put up a poll here (and Discord as well) for players to choose if they’d rather have or not have a Heal over Time component. I’d be interested to know what players would choose if given the option, and some have expressed that to me already, and the opinions seem to be quite split.

    I feel confident that if we wait more time with MindArk that this item could be truly fixed and not changed, however, it’s already been so long that I think it’s better to make it right as soon as possible and keep looking for answers in the interim.

    Lastly, one of the things that we’ve been trying to do going forward is to make sure there’s more upfront in-game knowledge for quest items (like what has been done for the Armor Plate Missions) and this will be applied retroactively to this mission chain for the next PP VU. Ideally it will become the standard for players to be able to get as much information from the game as possible.

    >> POLL LINK <<

    If you have any opinions that you’d like to share more about healing tools or buffs in general please share them.

    Cheers,
    Kris
     
  8. Curd
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    The Hub FAP does not have a heal over time effect.

    Entropia 2021-07-09 19.30.35.cr.jpg
     
  9. Kris | Cyrene
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    Hey guys,

    So after seeing the poll results as well as hearing back from MA, I believe that we have a fix coming for the next PP VU.

    The Heal Over Time effect will be reduced from 150% for 5 seconds down to 90% for 5 seconds, which in our testing allows this item to correctly give back shrapnel.

    You can see the item information from our test server here:
    Heart VI Changes - Going live next VU.png

    I know that some players won't be happy with these changes, and would rather the HoT be removed or for us to move onto the next stage. These are both things that we're working to allow for the future, if players want to have a Rank VI that has no HoT component, we'd like to offer that as well as a lateral change to this item. Same for opening up new ranks, but we're not able to move forward with that yet.

    For the next Planet Partner Version Update, the change you see in the item information above will come to the Refurbished H.E.A.R.T. Rank VI.

    Cheers,
    Kris
     
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  10. am89
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    Awesome way to fix problem, after 1 year, all what was need- it is nerf... Now H.E.A.R.T. Rank VI almost same as Vivo s10
     
  11. Jeralyn Williams
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    I'm writing this during the VU update and just read the release notes but, I dont see mention about this fix? im curious is this still being fixed on this VU or has it been further delayed?

    ----This next part is really to respond to ur post before----not as important lmfao

    Also, I think the biggest thing players really want is that its decay goes towards the loot since that is what its suppose to be. but, as far as it being direct heal or not I feel is going to be you cant please everyone.
    Id say the 2nd most important thing though is communicating what exactly your about to get in game. Which it sounds like you guys are planning which above all else is the most important at least to me and most i would say. Since most in game stuff you have no idea what ur getting. in this case the pattern through this mission was direct>direct>direct> and without anything know you get only HOT which the hot was great and honestly it didnt matter to me it was more the not knowing what was coming since everything else was direct heal. and if you look on wiki you just assume itll play out like the Vivo S10 just with way better heals. But, thats not what it was.
    We discussed this before but, I feel by the sounds of it you guys are making a transition for this to be more of how you guys handle things in the future and I think thats a big step in EU since a lot of quests you really dont know what ur getting til you complete the quest.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2021
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  12. Kris | Cyrene
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    Hey Jeralyn Williams,

    We decided against making any hasty changes for this VU that might unintentionally nerf it.
    It's further delayed but a fix is coming in the future.

    Cheers,
    Kris
     
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  13. Jeralyn Williams
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    wow that was a fast response ty but, unfortunate to hear actually >< so, it will remain how it is? (just to confirm)

    no new mission or something to upgrade it so, it works as advertised?
     
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  14. Shawna | Cyrene
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    It will remain as it is.
    Stay safe out there :bye:,
    Shawna
     
  15. Jeralyn Williams
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    thank you for the response! I will say you guys have communication down pact! Literally ur guys communication alone is whats driving me to want to be on Cyrene even with the grievance lmfao cuz im at my wits end with NI >< You guys and VS/Monria/Toulan have it down! I think thats extremely important!
    Well thx again ill look forward to hoping it comes sooner than later but, til then have a good one :D
     
  16. Shawna | Cyrene
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    Thank you for your kind words! :beerchug:
     
  17. Angel O2 Mercer
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    I have to agree, nerfing it would have been a terrible idea and make a lot of players very angry.

    I see MA's solution is to reduce the hot effect to 90%. I can see that working, but you would have to adjust the heal inverval so we don't lose either heal/sec nor heal/pec. Let me help you with that, it's very simple math.

    Current stats (150% heal over time)
    • Heal interval: 18.0 - 24.0 (this gives 24 * 1.5 = 36 maximum heal)
    • Uses per minute: 22
    • Heal/sec: 11.55
    • Heal/pec: 18.00

    Proposed stats (90% heal over time)

    • Heal interval: 30.0 - 40.0 (this gives 40 * 0.9 = 36 maximum heal, same as now)
    • Uses per minute: 22 (unchanged)
    • Heal/sec: 11.55 (exactly the same heal per second)
    • Heal/pec: 18.00 (exactly the same heal per pec)

    It may look like an upgrade, but it is not. In fact you leave the FAP exactly the same.

    On the other hand, while you are at it... can we get a new skin for this fap? ;)

    PS: Thanks for the open communication with us.
     
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  18. Shawna | Cyrene
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    This is exactly why we pulled it from the VU so we can further discuss changes with MA.

    As for the reskin...maybe?;)
     
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  19. Curd
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    Yeah, switch it to green. ;)
     
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  20. San
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    I have expressed incredulity before about why this seemingly simple thing should be so hard to fix, to the extent of it, concomitant with bigger issues, motivating assumptions there might be reasons other than technical. Still hoping this can be dispelled, but not possible without effective closure. Which everyone anywhere in upper management is trained to avoid.

    Maybe there is some systemic problem with its heal-over-time amount being expressed over and above the basic heal interval, which is unique since all other faps with this effect have it given as a portion of the total. Its Wiki entry (http://www.entropiawiki.com/Info.aspx?chart=FAP&id=241) contains a remark that this is weird and links to a PCF thread which shows how it caused quite a bit of confusion even for experienced players.

    Assuming that its actual stats aren't the problem to balancing and a nerf unnecessary since it's been approved into the game long ago, I don't think we need to haggle over 90% or whatever new number. Would it work if the stats simply were adjusted in a way that conforms with the common pattern, while functioning the same as before? This would also do away with the confusion for good.

    But it still strikes me as odd that an experienced development team would need to get such hints from the public. And spending how long - over a year? - chewing on gristle is not plausible. If this solution is not possible, it has to be assumed that actually there is a balancing issue and we're to expect a nerf, or the reason is something else I already get nauseous even thinking about.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2021
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